BRIAN KENNY: Today’s case is one other in our trilogy of exhibits that concentrate on the social function of the agency. Many automotive international locations around the globe have put a stake within the floor about when they may convert fully to electrical autos. For some, these dates are proper across the nook, which suggests they may want batteries, tons and plenty of batteries to energy these autos. So the place will they arrive from? Today’s case takes us to Stockholm, Sweden, the place an upstart battery maker is making an attempt to recreate the worth chain for European automobile producers making the change to EVs. Today on Cold Call, we welcome Professor George Serafeim to debate the case, Northvolt, Building Batteries to Fight Climate Change. I’m your host, Brian Kenny, and also you’re listening to Cold Call on the HBR Podcast Network. George Serafeim’s analysis focuses on the intersection between sustainability and digital transformation, and he’s a repeat buyer right here on Cold Call. George, thanks for becoming a member of me.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Great to be right here, Brian.
BRIAN KENNY: Always good to have you ever right here. And that is, as I discussed within the intro, that is one in every of three circumstances that we’re discussing on the social function of the agency, so we’ll discuss a little bit extra about that in a second. And I feel for anyone like me who’s been on the fence about getting an EV, the final two instances I modified up my automobile, I considered: Should I do it? Should I do it? And I haven’t taken the plunge, so possibly you may persuade me in the midst of this dialog that that’s a affordable factor to do. Do you drive an EV? I ought to ask that…
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Well, I drive a hybrid one.
BRIAN KENNY: A hybrid, okay.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: So I assume I’m halfway there.
BRIAN KENNY: A little additional down the trail than I’m. I’m nonetheless in a flamable. But what’s it? It’s an I-C-E. What is that? Internal combustion engine automobile.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Internal combustion engine automobile.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah, anyway. So I feel possibly we will push some individuals over the sting with this dialog, which might be nice. Let me ask you to begin simply by telling us what the central problem is within the case and what your chilly name is whenever you begin the dialogue.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: So Northvolt is a very thrilling firm. The cause why it is extremely thrilling is as a result of it’s each entrepreneur’s dream. Right? So I begin and say, “Have you ever heard of a company that before it has sold a single unit of the product, they have secured 55 billion of revenues?”
BRIAN KENNY: That’s wonderful.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: They have raised eight billion. Right? They have recruited hundreds of individuals which might be working the factories. And each aspiring entrepreneur says, “I wish I could do that.” So it’s a very, very thrilling firm. And truly, I begin the category, and my chilly name is you would possibly say a very counterintuitive one, which is, “Do you think Northvolt is a good or a bad idea? And if so, for whom?” And I break up it all the way down to the shoppers, which means European automobile producers, traders in Northvolt, European governments which might be supporting Northvolt, and naturally, for the entrepreneurs themselves. And that’s truly a very, very fascinating dialogue to have.
BRIAN KENNY: I guess there’s a little little bit of form of division throughout the category on that one too.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: It’s form of fascinating as a result of the sure reply is a fairly apparent one. It comes from the truth that you’ve gotten secured so many revenues, you’ve gotten raised a lot capital, you’ve gotten been in a position to appeal to an infinite quantity of individuals to go to not San Diego to work, however to work within the Arctic Circle, the place it’s a little chilly, I’d say.
BRIAN KENNY: It’s a little chilly.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: So, you can see how the success and the great concept story is a fairly apparent one, and in addition, you would possibly say that it’s a very enticing one as a result of that is a very quickly increasing market, the one for batteries, as you mentioned earlier than. We want a lot of batteries sooner or later, so from that perspective, it’s a nice concept, enterprise concept. It’s additionally a nice concept as a result of they’ve been in a position to safe, for instance, entry to low price inexperienced vitality. But on the similar time, there’s a actual query about whether or not that is certainly going to assist. Is this going to assist as a result of: Are the batteries going to be price aggressive? Already, your Asian producers and opponents have unimaginable scale that offers them unimaginable price competitiveness. Can you get there? And should you can, are you able to get there quick sufficient? Because that market is increasing so quick, you should ship batteries yesterday.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. And this will get a little bit I assume to the social function of the agency, so I’m questioning: How did you hear about Northvolt? And why did you resolve to jot down that case as a part of this new course that we’re doing on the social function of the agency?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Well, I’ve been writing a sequence of circumstances on what you’d name these local weather options corporations, principally corporations both entrepreneurial corporations, or established corporations which might be transitioning their companies to offer services and products which might be going to expertise a large quantity of progress sooner or later as a result of we’ll want them with a view to scale back carbon emissions within the economic system. And one in every of them is batteries, and batteries are wanted as a result of you should retailer electrical energy someplace, very like we now have inner combustion engine autos, fuel tanks to retailer the fuel, you should retailer it someplace. So batteries are going to be wanted for that. And in fact, batteries are going to be wanted at any time when you should retailer electrical energy someplace. Right? So, after we take into consideration that, I take into consideration corporations which might be in a position to ship that scaling course of. And now we have an infinite quantity of curiosity amongst college students, amongst members right here in being entrepreneurs and creating these corporations. So I see Northvolt as a very, very fascinating firm that illustrates most of the tensions and dilemmas that an entrepreneur has about key questions. How do I elevate financing for this? Is it fairness? Is it debt? How do I truly assemble a group? What are the credentials of the founding group that offers us sufficient credibility to get the shopper agreements, to get the capital? Where do I find? How do I make a alternative about location? Why up there in Sweden? What are the aggressive benefits on the subject of that? So a sequence of what I say essential selections that an entrepreneur and a founding group must make, they usually’re all being illustrated within the Northvolt case.
BRIAN KENNY:
Yeah. That raises all of these points. We throw a lot of those phrases round, greenhouse fuel emissions and issues like that. I don’t wish to assume that folks perceive even a idea as fundamental as net-zero. Can you simply clarify a little bit about net-zero and the primary drivers of local weather change?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: At a very, quite simple degree, Brian, what net-zero means is round mid-century, we have to principally scale back dramatically the carbon emissions that we’re emitting yearly. But as a result of we can’t actually attain zero emissions, which means that we gained’t emit something because the economic system, they’re so-called very expensive carbon emissions that may be very expensive for us to cut back. So as a consequence, that’s the place the idea of internet comes. And internet means you want detrimental emission applied sciences, both nature-based ones, comparable to for instance, reforestation, otherwise you want technological ones, comparable to carbon seize and storage, principally sucking carbon out of the air and storing it on Earth, that means that you can create negative-emission know-how. So then you may give it some thought. You can say, “Okay. We’re at 100% right now. We’ll reduce by 80%.” The relaxation 20% is simply too expensive, so we have to develop this negative-emission know-how for the remainder of the 20%. And that’s the place the time period net-zero comes from. And scientists principally are saying that kind of, we have to get there round mid-century with a view to hold from growing the temperature nicely beneath two levels Celsius.
BRIAN KENNY: Mid-century’s not that far-off. Right?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: It’s about 30 years from now, a little bit lower than that. But when you think about the size of change, give it some thought, like vehicles, now we have greater than a billion of them on the highway. Right? Changing them is definitely not a trivial train since you and me … How lengthy you’ve gotten had your automobile already?
BRIAN KENNY: The one which I’m driving proper now, 5 years.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Five years. And most individuals truly hold it for about 10 to 12. So even should you would say, “Look, I have the best car to offer for you,” it truly takes time for individuals to alter a few of these issues. And then when you consider all the things that we’re doing from heating and cooling and buildings and all the things else, it’s simply a very large-scale transformation that we have to expertise throughout the economic system.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. It’s humorous if I feel again in regards to the early days of COVID after we primarily shut whole communities down around the globe. And all these images began to emerge of locations that usually are lined in smog. And then all of a sudden, you can see the Himalayas and issues that you simply couldn’t ever see earlier than. And it was as a result of the vehicles had been off the highway, so vehicles are a massive downside. Yes?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Yes. Road transportation is a vital reason behind air pollution, air air pollution, and naturally, carbon emissions as nicely. So, to the extent that you can decarbonize them, which means that you can truly use electrical autos and ideally that electrical energy coming from low-carbon vitality sources, then you can make a dent.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. You outlined this within the case as a downside of the commons. What does that imply?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: The downside of the commons is this concept that as a result of we don’t have well-defined property rights, which means that you simply can’t cease me from overusing the park, being there on a regular basis and consuming it, we are inclined to have over-consumption of those frequent items and public items. And you may take into consideration the issue of local weather change in a related spirit within the sense that as a result of the ambiance is actually not owned by somebody, we’re overusing it as a result of we’re over-polluting it by placing an excessive amount of carbon on the market.
BRIAN KENNY: And assuming that it’s a downside of the commons, then the answer must also be the commons. Right? Everybody owns a piece of the answer. Right?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Well, that’s why this downside is so difficult, as a result of it’s actually a world downside. It is aware of no borders. And it’s a world coordination downside as a result of even should you scale back your carbon emissions, however I enhance mine, then we’re again at being-
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. It’s like a trade-off.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Being Sisyphus, principally. Right?
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: We’re pushing the rock and it comes down.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah, yeah. Are there examples you may consider the place now we have collectively solved a downside of the commons?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Sometimes now we have. A well-known instance of that’s for instance, the ozone layer. Right? If you keep in mind form of again within the ’80s, we all-
BRIAN KENNY: Unfortunately, I keep in mind the ’80s very nicely, George.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: I really like the ’80s, by the way in which. But all of us bought very scared as a result of we had been thinning the ozone layer. And that was inflicting truly actually critical well being penalties for a lot of individuals as a substitute of … Including pores and skin most cancers and so forth. So as a consequence, the world got here collectively to create one thing that is known as the Montreal Protocol, and as a part of that, phasing out substances that had been answerable for inflicting the thinning of the ozone. And typically, because the world, as we’re trying again 30, 40 years later, now we have been enormously profitable by way of lowering these varieties of emissions that had been inflicting that impact.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. I keep in mind specifically, aerosol cans had been a massive downside.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Exactly. Refrigerants, these varieties of issues.
BRIAN KENNY: That’s a nice instance. So let’s discuss a little bit about Northvolt. The founders are a actually fascinating story. Tell us how the concept for the corporate itself emerged.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: It’s this tremendous fascinating perspective virtually on entrepreneurship. Right?
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: We all are inclined to dream that you simply turn out to be an entrepreneur, you’ve gotten this nice concept. But you at all times had it, and this was at all times your technique plan, and also you had been engaged on it over 20 years. But the fact of really many nice concepts is it begins with a hunch, and a chilly name at night time, principally. Right? And that is what occurred, Carl-Erik principally has these corporations that depend on provide chains from Asian producers. And as principally their necessary border obstacles to supplies, shifting via, he’s asking himself, “Why can’t we have a value chain here in Europe that we can actually secure, and as a result, diversify our supply chain.” And he’s taking a look at that, and he finds on LinkedIn, Peter Carlsson, who was once at Tesla, and he was heading there a number of provide chain and manufacturing and battery associated work. He calls him up in the course of the night time, and there they go.
BRIAN KENNY: We’re assuming that EVs are actually chopping down on emissions. How a lot do they really minimize down?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: The reply is it relies upon. So let me say what it will depend on. So the very first thing is that principally with a view to create the battery, you want truly a lot of vitality. So the place the battery will get manufactured makes a massive distinction, and this is the reason they’re positioned up within the Arctic Circle as a result of they’ve entry to a lot of hydropower that may be very inexperienced vitality, very low carbon vitality. And by the way in which, it’s additionally very low cost. So, whenever you make the battery with low-carbon vitality, that really reduces the carbon footprint from the availability chain perspective and the manufacturing perspective of making an EV. And then in fact, the opposite massive half is the place you drive the automobile. So, should you drive the automobile in a nation, in a location, the place typically a lot of the electrical energy, whenever you cost your automobile, can be coming from photo voltaic and wind and decrease carbon sources, then truly, the discount within the carbon emission relative to driving an inner combustion engine automobile will be very, very dramatic. So on a complete lifetime let’s say of possession of let’s say 10 years, you can truly scale back emissions as much as 80%.
BRIAN KENNY: Wow.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Maybe much more, truly, by an electrical automobile. But now do the alternative experiment, and also you say, “Well, what if I produce it primarily, the battery, utilizing coal? And then I drive and the electrical energy grid is primarily utilizing coal, which tends to be probably the most excessive carbon intensive gas, then you can think about the place you can get into a state of affairs the place truly, you haven’t lowered in any respect. Right?
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Or even a state of affairs the place you’ve gotten elevated carbon emissions. Right?
BRIAN KENNY: Right.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: At the very excessive. So it actually relies upon the place you manufacture the battery and the place you drive the automobile.
BRIAN KENNY: Makes good sense. And Europe, if we take into consideration the EU specifically, have been a lot, way more aggressive and dedicated to sustainability measures than the United States, or Asia, or many different elements of the world. So it form of makes good sense for them to do that right here. What are among the steps that the EU specifically, has taken to cut back CO2 emissions?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Well, it’s fairly fascinating as a result of truly, in one of many reveals, now we have the common carbon depth, which means carbon emissions per unit of electrical energy produced for every one of many grids within the totally different EU international locations. And one of many issues that you simply see is that principally, over the many years, that carbon depth has declined considerably, being a manifestation of the truth that certainly, many European international locations have been in a position to decarbonize their grids fairly considerably. That is necessary as a result of then whenever you drive the automobile, that’s a decrease carbon automobile, as we mentioned earlier than. And the centerpiece I’d say of the European technique for lowering carbon emissions has been the European Union carbon market, the place they’ve imposed a value on carbon, they usually have allowed it for buying and selling the place should you want it to truly emit a unit of carbon, you have to to buy that allowance from anyone else. And that has been a massive driver I’d say of the technique of Europe towards de-carbonization. That being mentioned, Brian, I additionally assume that’s necessary to acknowledge that just about all areas have a de-carbonization technique. China has one. And truly, this is without doubt one of the the explanation why the strongest I’d say battery producers, very like CATL, are find in China, as a result of they’re creating all these extremely highly effective, environment friendly, and aggressive local weather options corporations. And in fact, now within the US, now we have the Inflation Reduction Act, which is a massive push of the US in the direction of creating these local weather options, industries, and worth chains and have the ability to turn out to be aggressive sooner or later.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. So that’s actually fascinating. And I feel we see these targets that every one of those governments put on the market, and Europe has very aggressive ones. And I ponder: Are they too aggressive? We put the stake within the floor and we are saying that is the place we’re going to be by 2030, or 2040, or 2050. What occurs should you don’t make that? Is it demoralizing?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: It’s a basic administration query, truly, that you simply’re asking. Right? So all organizations, governments, corporations, we at HBS, we set targets. Right?
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: And typically, virtually just like the recipes, you should set formidable targets to inspire individuals. Right? But not so formidable that really, it’s unimaginable to get, after which the goal turns into irrelevant. Right? So the query is: What is the character of the goal that enables for individuals to come back collectively, to align, to cooperate, and row the boat in the identical course? Right? So whenever you have a look at among the targets for de-carbonization that Europe has set, now truly, they don’t seem to be that totally different from instance from the US one, as a result of each the US and Europe have principally net-zero targets by near mid-century. And relying on the European nation, it could be a little bit sooner than that. And then whenever you truly observe, for instance, China, it’s a little bit later than that, reflecting on the much less state of GDP per capita, principally, gross home product per capita. And in international locations like India, a little bit later, nearer to 2070, reflecting that. Right? So I feel from that perspective, we have to view it from the attitude of how formidable you needed to be as a result of: What is the urgency behind that purpose?
BRIAN KENNY: Okay. So let’s return to Northvolt then with all of this in thoughts. What had been the founders hoping to attain in beginning the group? And what was the technique that they selected to maneuver ahead?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: I feel it’s a actually fascinating technique as a result of what they’re doing is that they’re creating this advantage cycle between buyer offtake agreements, so getting the dedication from clients to principally enter into these offtake agreements from the merchandise, after which elevating financing on the again of these offtake agreements. And that financing is actually essential as a result of this isn’t a enterprise that’s creating an app to promote you one thing. This is difficult capital expenditure, a lot of producing, a lot of kit, a lot of individuals. You want billions and billions to construct what Northvolt is doing. So as a consequence, you want that. And in fact, with a view to get each the shoppers on board and the traders on board, you additionally have to get governments on board.
BRIAN KENNY: Right.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Right? And this truly a essential part as a result of the founders are trying the place Europe goes from a authorities technique perspective. And they’re saying, “We can actually help you deliver that.” Right? And whenever you see that, then the query additionally turns into: What are the strategic selections that the agency is making? And a few of them are extraordinarily, extraordinarily necessary. What we focus on about earlier than, location is extraordinarily necessary. Why? Because it means that you can get low cost entry to vitality, and on the similar time, differentiation. So anyone doesn’t say, “Okay, it’s a commodity product. This is just a battery.” No, truly, it’s a greener battery. And when your clients even have their very own de-carbonization targets, you’re truly enabling them to succeed in these.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. That’s good.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: So, I feel sure of these parts are actually essential by way of creating an consequence for a startup that’s a very fascinating consequence.
BRIAN KENNY: And these founders had some credibility. They had some avenue cred. I imply, they each held necessary positions in necessary corporations, they usually knew a lot about what they had been making an attempt to do right here.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Totally. And I feel that’s the different essential piece right here. So you’re getting two of the founders which might be coming from Tesla with unimaginable credentials within the market, not being some, no disrespect, Brian and George out of the blue saying, “We will build a battery manufacturer.”
BRIAN KENNY: Right, proper.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: But these individuals know what they’re doing, after which with them, two different unimaginable entrepreneurs financiers, that really have a lot of credibility in constructing corporations and elevating a lot of capital in doing so. Right? And then the placement can be a aggressive benefit since you’re on this Swedish atmosphere, the place truly it’s a excessive belief, cooperative market economic system, the place you may truly get industrial teams and different companions to turn out to be a part of an ecosystem to assist the creation of this entrepreneurial exercise. And as we mentioned earlier than, additionally with the assistance of the European Investment Bank that’s offering a mortgage to the enterprise, and that’s extraordinarily necessary. So you’re constructing that ecosystem. But what’s the glue round that ecosystem is the credibility of the founding group.
BRIAN KENNY: I used to be fascinated at the truth that they had been in a position to line up so many purchasers. It was this form of cart, horse factor that they needed to deal with. You want the traders, however you want the shoppers to get the traders. But you want the traders to make the shoppers really feel like one thing’s going to occur. How did that play out?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: It’s virtually a cycle that you simply’re getting via. So I feel it’s actually, actually necessary to get a smaller preliminary financing to don’t solely industrial degree manufacturing, however a demonstration and visibility manufacturing. That is vital. And a part of that key additionally is just not truly making an attempt to say, “Okay, by the way, this is an unproven innovative technology.” By the way in which, they’re not making an attempt to make stable state batteries or one thing that actually doesn’t exist but. They’re making lithium ion batteries that’s a confirmed know-how. It works. And as a consequence, it’s eradicating that facet of danger from this endeavor. So then as a buyer, what’s your danger at that time? Well, your danger is: Can they scale up? And can they ship these batteries?
BRIAN KENNY: Is it inexpensive for these OEMs to purchase their battery from a battery that’s made extra regionally than to have them made in Asia and shipped over?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: I feel my preliminary response might be it’s cheaper to purchase them in China and ship them over.
BRIAN KENNY: Really? Okay.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: That is my preliminary response. But I feel there are a couple of ifs right here. Right? The first one is the price of the precise vitality. If you may truly get the price of vitality to be actually, actually low, you would possibly have the ability to truly ship price competitiveness. The second one is the speed at which you’re scaling manufacturing. You ought to have the ability to obtain huge economies of scale if you’re attending to the extent of what’s referred to as gigafactory, which is what Northvolt is constructing as nicely. And in fact, you then even have the price of transportation.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Right? And whenever you take all of these issues under consideration, I feel you may get near that price that you simply could be incurring from Asia. I feel in my opinion it’s fairly arduous to get beneath that given the effectiveness that these corporations have been in a position to obtain.
BRIAN KENNY: Sure, yeah.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: But are you able to get near that? And then are you able to ship it at a lot decrease carbon emissions? This is strictly what they’re doing.
BRIAN KENNY: Which actually helps them to make their goal, so there’s a tradeoff that they could be prepared to make. Vertical integration was a essential a part of their technique. What are the uncooked supplies that go into making a lithium ion battery? And are these supplies accessible in a price efficient means?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: That is a big bottleneck. When you have a look at truly the provision of a lot of these supplies, they exist in very, very particular areas of the world and everyone’s making an attempt to get them.
BRIAN KENNY: Of course.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Right? So securing them is extremely necessary. And one of many issues that Northvolt has executed has executed backward vertical integration so as to have the ability to de-risk price inflation within the worth chain. And the opposite factor that they’re doing is that they’re implementing what we name round economic system ideas, in plain English, which means reuse, recycle, of parts which might be going into the batteries to have the ability to decouple future progress of battery manufacturing from the uncommon supplies that you simply really need as a result of should you can take again a few of these batteries, then you may disassemble, you may take again the uncommon supplies, you may reuse them. Right? And that really is enabling you once more to do a couple of issues. The first one is to guard your self towards price inflation. And the second is just not need to mine once more all these uncommon minerals, once more, reducing the carbon emissions which might be embodied within the batteries, and as a consequence, have the ability to produce and ship a decrease carbon battery.
BRIAN KENNY: So, in the event that they construct this gigafactory, what number of batteries will they have the ability to make once they’re at scale?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Gigafactories most likely can ship about 600,000 of EVs or so. Again, it will depend on the dimensions a little bit. You could make them a little bit larger. You could make them a little bit smaller. But let’s say for the sake of that argument, about 600,000 EVs.
BRIAN KENNY: A 12 months?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Yes.
BRIAN KENNY: Okay, okay. I feel the case cites this too, the variety of EVs which might be on the roads as of late by way of the general variety of vehicles which might be on the roads, fairly small. Right?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: It’s accelerating very quick, however the inventory is small. It’s a few million already. I feel by now, simply Tesla has I feel offered one thing like 4 million of their lifetime. So, you may scale that up and never all the things that’s being offered, and it’s most likely within the low two digit thousands and thousands of electrical autos out of a inventory of tons of of thousands and thousands.
BRIAN KENNY: But if all of those OEMs are going to satisfy their targets, we’re going to see a big bump in that quantity. So you’re most likely going to wish a lot of gigafactories to have the ability to present all of the batteries.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: A lot of gigafactories.
BRIAN KENNY: We talked a little bit about it earlier than, however I’m questioning. Do you assume a Northvolt mannequin would work within the United States?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: It relies upon, I feel. Right? I feel it will depend on a couple of issues. The first one is readability of presidency course. There must be stability in coverage as you’re shifting ahead. In normal, companies thrive on stability of presidency motion. To that extent, I feel that might facilitate that. The different factor is I’d say the entry to low cost low carbon vitality. And then in fact, the ecosystem that you simply create round you. Right? So you want an ecosystem of elements, producers, and clients, and everyone to align round that. So I feel it wants a little little bit of a coordination, and that’s exhibited with differential skill throughout totally different states and throughout the historical past.
BRIAN KENNY: Sure. Yeah. And you additionally want an infrastructure within the nation that may make consumers like me, who’re sitting on the sidelines ready to make that transfer, really feel snug about it. We’re so snug with our fuel powered autos that that’s a massive step for a lot of individuals.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Electric automobile charging infrastructure, a big one.
BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. 100%. This has been a nice dialog, because it at all times is with you. I’ve realized a lot. One extra query for you’d simply be: If you need individuals to recollect one factor in regards to the Northvolt case, what would it not be?
GEORGE SERAFEIM: The one factor, Brian, that I’d say is that on the finish of the category, I wrap up and I say, “When you have this Venn diagram where three circles intersect, magic happens.” And that’s the proper individuals, in the appropriate location, on the proper time. Right? And I feel the Northvolt case illustrates a few of that. So, I go away lots of my college students with that thought. And I ask them to consider: What are the capabilities and credibility that they bring about that’s distinctive and differentiates them? Are they in the appropriate location of the enterprise that they’re making an attempt to construct? And is the time proper? Is it too early or too late? Because each of them will be harmful.
BRIAN KENNY: Right. And I feel the lesson there may be whenever you get the concept, make the decision, it doesn’t matter what time of night time it’s. George, thanks a lot for becoming a member of me.
GEORGE SERAFEIM: Thank you a lot for having me.
BRIAN KENNY: If you take pleasure in Cold Call, you would possibly like our different podcasts, After Hours, Climate Rising, Deep Purpose, IdeaCast, Managing the Future of Work, Skydeck, and Women at Work. Find them on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you hear. And should you may take a minute to fee and assessment us, we’d be grateful. If you’ve gotten any solutions or simply wish to say hi there, we wish to hear from you. Email us at coldcall@hbs.edu. Thanks once more for becoming a member of us. I’m your host, Brian Kenny, and also you’ve been listening to Cold Call, an official podcast of Harvard Business School and a part of the HBR podcast community.
